Tow Vehicle choices
 

Slightly off-topic, but very relevant for us who track their cars and like to go home in the case of an accident.

Currently the vehicles I am considering are a 1999-2001 Expedition, and possibly a Chevy Astro Van.

The Astro van will have to be newer 2003+, and are only v6s, but you can pack more ---- and they will probably get ebtt

The expedition is an expedition, both motors are v8s, and the towing difference between the two is not significant for the miata. I am looking at maximum 5000 lbs total, depending on the trailer, two sets of tires, tools/extras, fuel, bedding (to sleep) and the such.

Suggestions are greatly appreciated!

ive towed mine on a 1300lb trailer, total weight about 3500-4000lb. in a 02 Ford Ranger, 4.0v6 5 speed, you know its back there but doesn't have a problem pulling it, the truck had all the trailer package upgrades on it and trailer brake kit.
edit: but if i were going long distances, i would probobly go the enclosed trailer way to big for the car, and add sleeping quarters in the front. :sign0134:

Forgot to mention, my price range is ~$4000 for the vehicle. The ranger is on the high end of that for some reason.

I will look into the Ranger, but I really want to stay with an SUV so I can sleep in it.

Look at explorers, with either the 5.0 of 4.6. there are some nice ones to be had for cheap. some came with the 4.0 but that might be a little underpowered for what you need. if you get the one with the 5.0, parts are on the cheap.

If you try to do an explorer you will need to upgrade the rear springs and tighten that sloppy pig up. They are sprung for comfort and not a load. I've got to sign off now but I will be back here tomorrow.

yea, I am not big on the explorer. similar prices to the expedition, shorter wheel base, narrower, and they might be a bit tight to sleep in and fit a bunch of tools in the back.

I drove an expedition today, felt pretty torque but it was leaking oil like a ------ pig. pass.

yea, never a good idea to get something leaking all kinds of oil. shows how well its been taken care of.

Expeditions are pretty damn heavy at 5400lbs empty. My Tundra only weighs 4100. My v6 Toyota T100 only weighed 3700 and towed my '68 GTO on a tow dolly without drama. Weight costs you in fuel, but it also costs you in wear items when you stop and start more weight 80 times in a day, FWIW. Transmission wear and heat, bearings, brakes, suspension, steering, tires, and all the joints work with a bit more loading. If they are oversized to carry the extra weight well then they will often be more expensive (F150 vs. F250 suspension and brake parts have a big swing in price between them). Unless you are taking the JV basketball team on a road trip you really don't need seating for nine. Doesn't an Astro van have a lower loading height and a larger inside height than The Expedition? I wish both of those dimensions were more favorable in my truck. :(

You will also want to get the lightest trailer that will suit your foreseeable needs because it will be easiest to tow. I bought my tow dolly (they're not for everybody) for $300 about 15 years ago. Don't be afraid of a single axle trailer if it is rated for the 2500 lbs you will need. They are easier to turn tightly and you will have half of the wheel and bearing maintenance issues. Bearings must be serviced more often on trailers than automobiles. Usually bearings are repacked with grease once a year.

Always load as much of your gear as you can in your tow vehicle and not on the trailer. This will add stability. Always keep the weight on the trailer balanced with more of it in front of the trailer's axle(s) than behind. You want more weight on the tongue of the trailer and therefore being put on the drive axle of the tow vehicle. If the weight of the load is concentrated behind the axle(s) of the trailer the trailer will sway, sometimes violently, left to right and can cause loss of control of the vehicle. Improper loading of a trailer is one of the more dangerous pitfalls you can face.

Always use a lock on the tongue of the trailer where it grabs the ball. It isn't safe unless it it locked. Make sure the ball is rated for the load you intend to carry. It will be stamped on it somewhere. Always use safety chains and do criss-cross them so that if the tongue unhitches from the ball it will catch the tongue and maintain control of it so that you may come to a safe stop.

Get a trailer that sits low for easier loading of a lowered automobile. Don't be afraid of tilt bed trailers as an option, too. They are able to make loading easier sometimes.

great, thanks for the info Six. I really can't get the van due to it will be my daily. I am not particularly happy with the expedition, so perhaps a blazer or the 4runner are not bad ideas?

I need to get a car thats relatively easy to daily, but will still tow a trailer and the car. total for 2200lbs for the car, x weight for the trailer, and about 200 lbs worth of stuff. between tools, jack, drill, and sleeping. in the future, I will be taking spare sets of tires and more parts.

Maybe I need to just suck it up and get a truck. f-150 would be pretty easy decision to make.

yea, f-150 would be a good option. if you find one with the 4.6, look around for wrecked 05-10 mustang gt. the motors make more power and get better milage. my dad gets about 24-28mpg in his. might be a good upgrade for it.

then again, I am looking at these Ford E-150s and they are a ------- steal. I found a couple for $4000 with low mileage and maintenance records.

yea, there cheap easy to fix, and parts are readily available in the junkyard. Im alittle worried about pulling around a car and trailer. the clutch is getting bad, 107,xxx miles on the original.

Yeah, it's a joke how quickly E-150s depreciate. I still hate working on Fords though! The E-150s have fairly cushy springs but they are leafs and are super simple to add on to if you want to make it firmer. There are also aftermarket rear sway bar kits to add them to vans that didn't come with them. My boss has an E-150 conversion van that swayed like a drunk and always felt tippy because of all of the weight added up high. We added the rear sway kit and a leaf and it firmed it up nicely. I don't like that Ford uses cheap plastics, especially in their switchgear. It can be an annoyance to replace little switches and buttons.

Full size vans aren't any harder to see out of or park than Expeditions, but have much lower floors. If you only have 200lbs of gear you need more tools, lol. I had two jacks, four jackstands, four tires and wheels for the car, two spares for the dolly, oil, car water, drinking water, brake pads, four way wrench, a five gallon fuel can, brake cleaner, assorted hand tools, a suitcase, a sleeping bag, and a cooler full of ice. I would assume you would likely have a charcoal grill and a bag of charcoal with you for grilling. That's more gear than I needed but enough to make me feel comfortable that I was well prepared. That's a lot more than 200lbs. and it is much easier to drag along all that junk and be prepared when you aren't stuck driving your race vehicle to the track. That's the beauty of it.

You mentioned 4Runners. They are expensive because they are reliable if they've been maintained well. They don't have as much room as a van but would certainly tow a Miata. They have the same engine as my T100 did and it towed fine.

well, I drive my miata to the track, so currently my tools comprise of essential fluids (brake fluid, coolant, oil, windex), floor jack, two jack stands, a tool kit, rotors, and a box of assorted ----. Add on clothing, cooler, laptop, helmet, and chair and the miata is pretty full.

Anyways, yea the 4runner is looking like a good bet, but its so tempting to get one of those E-150s. engine choices are plenty and the 4.2 or the 4.6 looks like it will do just fine for towing.

I just gotta spend sometime this weekend looking around at all the possibilities.

Well, I have been looking around at these cars, specifically a 4runner and pathfinders.

I pretty much have to throw the pathfinders out because there is a TSB on the 96-98 models for faulty control arm bushings and it seems to be pretty common. Anything newer is somewhere north of 5k.

4Runners are ------- expensive and a bit rare to find. my local craigslist is coming up short on the cars for sale by owner, and I am not trying to get butt raped by a dealership. I was looking at a 2000, its for sale for 5.6k and has less miles than 1997 for sale by a dealer at the same price. I am betting these 4runners are gobbled up frequently by parents trying to make their high school daughter happy. ---- me.

So, patience or just bite the bullet and get a van? The Sticker idea isn't so bad, but I need to get a big ------ vinyl for the side. RICK, what do you think? I can advertise your services all day ;)

I think it should say in giant letters "MOBILE ORIENTAL MASSAGE" and under that in small letters "racing". I bet you'll get lots of attention.

I still think the astro will be quieter and more reliable and a little better on gas than the E series vans. It will also have more amenities and be more comfortable with more sound suppression padding. It will still have a truck frame and a leaf spring rear but will be easier to park because it will be a little shorter and a couple of inches narrower. It will also be easier to see out of backing up. I would drive them and attempt parking them. My most recent experience in an E series was that the steering was a little vague at ~80k miles.

I would certainly drive them and buy what you like. You will have to live with it so buy what you want to drive and would be comfortable in.

4Runners hold their value too well. You will only find one cheap if it is ragged to hell.

I broke down. I am just going to get a truck. This van idea just won't work, I can't imagine myself driving to a decent dinner with a girl and having to drive a damn work van.

A truck it will be, I think. Probably a 94-98 f150/silverado. there is a couple of v6 5-speeds around, just gotta figure out towing accomodations.

I forgot that you were still needing a date vehicle and were needing a little coolness and weren't in old-fart-practicality-only mode!

That pickup idea will work just fine. The v6/auto should be fine too if you add an additional trans cooler. The bumper will be rated for 4-5000lbs usually, so just a ball there will be sufficient.

I hate to throw out a tangential idea at this point but have you looked at 2000-2004 v6 Xterras? They are rated adequately for your load and have a truck frame under them. They won't have quite the same chick-turn-off factor as a van but are much more reasonable than 4Runners. Just brainstorming here.

I just looked and they are very reasonable: http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/ctd/2707673431.html
The 2005 and up versions after the restyle were apparently junk and should be avoided.

I used the vinyl bench seat in my standard cab F-150 to its fullest potential back in college when I was dating. I just had a slew of good memories come flashing back. One good thing about vinyl seats and rubber floor mats is that if she gets the whipped cream or chocolate syrup on the seat when you are wrestling with her you can just hose it off later. Very, very good times.

haha, good idea, I hadn't even thought of the Xterra. I will look at the montero sport also and see whats available in the mitsu area.

btw, xterra's are pretty expensive up here. 2000s are going at around 5k+ ish. I did find a few that have promise.

how about an Isuzu trooper and/or Rodeo? some of the 99s are v6s with about 4500-5000 lbs towing. the question is, transmission cooler?

I am going to continue looking at all these options in the mean time and slowly eliminate some stuff. I am still liking the utility of a van, but I need a non-work van and to find a way to paint it well!

Why can't you just take dates out in the miata? Bitches love race cars.

I have a friend with a Rodeo, not sure what year. I think he has about 130k on it. I have used it a few times to move stuff around and honestly I would not tow with it. It just never felt completely solid when I had it loaded with all my school stuff.

did you look at bronco's

bad driving record + 2 cars = 2 x insurance rate.

Not sure bitches want to get in a loud as ---- car, with 6-point harnesses, no carpet, no ac, and ridiculously stiff suspension for NC roads.

Montero Sports are hard to work on under the hood. And the auto trannies are weak. And the gasket rubber in the engines is low quality compared to Toyota and Honda so they leak early and often. This includes valve stem seals. And you have to drain the coolant and pull the upper and middle intake manifolds just to change spark plugs. Shall I continue?

Four cylinder Rodeos and Amigos had a GM/Holden engine that was one of the most problem plagued engines since the Chevy Vega of the 1970s. But if they had a manual trans they had a T-5 and a 4.33 Dana 44 rear end. They were built on a sturdy truck frame. The 6 cyls were average mechanically but commonly had oil leakage issues requiring new gaskets. The automatic transmissions are 4L30-E Hydra-matics rated at 258 engine ft/lbs. They are found in these vehicles:

"Applications:

• 1991–1995 BMW 525i
• 1992–1995 BMW 325i
• 1992–1998 BMW 318i
• 1992-1998 Chevrolet Omega
• 1994–2001 Honda Passport
• 1996–1999 BMW 328i
• 1996–1999 BMW 528i
• 1996–2000 BMW Z3
• 1996– Acura SLX
• 1996– Opel Frontera
• 1997–1999 BMW 323i
• 1997–2001 Cadillac Catera
• 1999– Isuzu Amigo
• 2001– Isuzu VehiCROSS
• 1991–1998 Isuzu Rodeo
• 1990–2001 Isuzu Trooper

The same family of v6 was in the Troopers. The manual trans in the Trooper is the Aisin AR5. It can handle up to 260 ft·lbf (353 N·m) of torque.
Applications:

• 2004 to 2008– Chevrolet Colorado
• 2004 to 2008– GMC Canyon
• 2006 to 2010– Pontiac Solstice
• 2007 to 2010– Saturn Sky
• 2007– Hummer H3
• 1998– 2002– Isuzu Trooper

That being said, I don't know how it would work out as a tow vehicle since Isuzu left North America there won't be any service parts available from the dealerships.

Got it. I am looking for something to come up. Trucks and Vans are looking good right now still. There is a few more astro vans that popped up, and there are a couple of low mileage v6 5-speed f150s. I also found an silverado 2500 with 170k miles. I heard the 4L80 in them are beastly for towing, so if the price is right I might get that instead. Doubtful though as its extended cab, so its likely to be expensive.

Depending on the year I would be cautious of the electrical systems in the F-150. I had first hand experience with my step fathers(same as you mentioned 2000 ext cab V6 5spd 2wd). While the drivetrain did make it over 227k, the wipers would come on with a hard right hand turn, the windows where as moody as a teenage girl and it ate alternators like a fat kid eats cake.

The V6 is lacking in power and fails to move the truck out of its own way, much less tow anything more then a pop-up camper. I'm not positive on the rear end Ford put into the V6 F-150's, but I would research that before serious consideration.

I also had the great pleasure of owning a 96 V6 Rodeo 5spd 4wd, and while it was a wonderfully capable off-road truck it was no tow rig. I did some towing with it, same as the V6 F-150, a pop-up camper and small boats. Neither fault at home but I would say the Rodeo was better suited to the job with all round disc brakes and better road manners, Along with solid build quality.

My vote still goes for something along these lines Fullsize

edit: Bitchs love Vans! Get that bitch a Van!

You figure out what trailer you're going to be using yet?

Get that bitch an ice cream truck.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324560331

Bitches love ice cream.


But seriously, Keep the trailer lightweight if given the choice.

I haven't thought about the trailer yet, but I would really like to stay simple. perhaps single axle with brakes. considering the amount of extra tools and parts I will be bringing when I have space, I think trailer brakes and an EBC are pretty cheap insurance.

I will continue looking, but there doesn't seem to be many vans near us Ryan. Craigslist turned up a few, and there is a lot of E150s. I know you aren't a Ford man, but...

Yeah, I''m not either. But there is a lot of stuff out there I have issues with.

Hey lookie! http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2765086526.html
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912
It's the plumber. He's come to fix the sink.


Here's a shaggin' wagon: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2762720526.html
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912


Even better for $2k you can have this:
http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2743008293.html

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912

or $3900 gets you :http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2756860992.html
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912

or for $3750: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2759822018.html
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1324575912

haha thanks, ------- bed in it already. not sure if tools will fit? great finds, I have two of those saved already but didn't see the other two.

When you open the back door the area under the bed is accessible (typically wide open) so you can not only put a bunch of tools under it but you can hide things you don't want people to see when they look in the window. The bed typically folds up into a couch when not being used as a bed.

And it is technically only a "------- bed" if you can lure a partner into it.

You can take out the middle captain's chairs if you needed to and easily load big things through the side barn doors onto the floor. And you can sit in them and sit across the table and play cards and eat with other people if the weather is bad. I think there is often a removable table between the captain's chairs and the back seat.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1326221519
My recommendation for a tow vehicle

I'll just drop this here.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1330295834

Been towing with my wife's SUV (Jeep Grand Cherokee with a Hemi) for several years and it works great, despite not so stellar fuel mileage. WIll continue to do so on short tows.

Recently set up a corporate account with Enterprise Commercial Trucks for longer tows. They rent 3/4 ton diesels to tow with for very reasonable rates. No need to buy vehicle, insure it or maintain it. Last two rentals, the trucks had 130 miles (GMC 2500) and 40 miles (Dodge 2500) on the odometers respectively when I picked them up.

May be of interest.

Feff

today I saw a modded Scion xB towing a trailer. I didn't get a good look. It had a window sticker on the rearmost side window. I don't know what it says.


this post is mostly worthless.

Lol