How to decide on turbo setup
 

So in about 1 month I am the US Gov. is sending me a check for a rediculous amount of money. Some of which is going under the hood of the car as a present to myself. I have the engine in beautiful condition, and running a DIYPNP. Now that I am comfortable (to an extent) on tuning it, I am researching the turbo setup I want.

I'm debating between the FM "no electronics" package and the BEGI S4 with all the bells and whistles. Both comapnies have great reputations for quality, service and POWER! :skid:

For those of you who have already pulled the trigger, how did you decide whom to spend your money with?

FWIW, this is not another "I'm dreaming of a turbo setup but won't do it or if I do, cheap out" thread.

call each. who makes you more comfortable?

I like bits and pieces of both vendors.

I've heard great things about both. I would feel comfortable with either systems. I hear that the FM is a little easier on the install and a little more reliable, but the BEGI has more options and R&D into it. Just looking for some real world experiences that aren't biased, and if there are any real reasons to pick one over another.

Personally I'd want a BEGi kit with FM's silicone lower rad hose and silicone coldside IC pipe.

FM so far I have had great customer service for me. Can't vouch for begi. Don't have any experiance with them but heard good things.

I like the quality of the FMII. But the Intercooler is small and the DP is a bitch to do. Them vbands would be baller...

I'd love to offer advice but I like the buffet approach where you take a little of everything you want. There are some beautiful custom exhaust manifolds and downpipes being done by ARTech and ABSURDflow just to throw a couple of names out there. I also like the idea of a cheaper ebay intercooler, etc.

If you have to get a kit you can choose which pieces to source yourself. It isn't an all or nothing thing with FM or BEGi kits.

Definitely down for v-band exhaust from artech. That is one my list. The FM down pipe isn't that bad to fit. Just find someone with small hands and 14 wrists. The FM intercooler comes in two sizes. I've got the smaller one with no heat issues yet. It pretty efficient to my knowledge. Not an expert but daily driving with the hydra running on the lap top the intakes temps are only a few degrees up from ambiant. Just got mine going so we'll see how it goes when I start romping on it harder.

I've had 2 miatas with both with a FM kit. The install was easy, the parts are quality, and FM will back their products.

No experience with BEGi, I know at least in the past I've heard of issues (parts taking a while to be shipped, wrong parts being shipped, slow customer service), haven't really seen much lately. It did seem like eventually everything would get sorted out.

But if I do it again, I'm going to take bits and pieces from many companies.

What sixshooter said. Artech or ABSURDflow manifold and downpipe, churbo, ebay intercooler kit, rebuilt rx7 injectors, oil/water lines, and you're done.

If you want to go with a pre-made kit, I don't blame you. I don't have any BEGI experience, and only a few small parts from FM, and with that said I'd prefer FM with their fabulous customer service.

Big difference between the FM and Begi S4 is FM has log manifold, Begi is tubular.

I've heard lots of praise about Begi's manifold. Is the tubular design really that much better?

I thought it was the S5 that was tubular. Anyhow, I know a guy that's cracked 3 of them. I'd personally stay away. Tubular, when designed correctly, supposedly flows better.

S4 is definitely tubular, S5 is cast, then S6 goes back to tubular. For those who recommend Absurdflow, what are the advantages over a cast manifold with a 2554R or 2560R?

I don't plan on boosting too much right now, so hopefully my risk of popping the manifold is low. I figure I'll start at about 5-6 psi and go from there as I get more comfortable with my tuning abilities. Hopefully a tubular would hold up to that much.

Better spool (300-600 rpm commonly reported depending on design of log and design of tubular), better peak power due to gently rounded curves not impeding flow as much, and better overall efficiency due to better directing of individual exhaust pulses directly into the throat of the turbine housing (logs have a tendency to have pulse collisions and reversions). But logs are cheaper and work just fine for most people. Just don't buy less manifold than you are going to want later unless you want to build new downpipes, etc. also.
A good tubular will hold more than a Miata can throw at it. The cheap ebay ones have failed in a couple of weeks at 6psi due to thin tubing, bad welds, and crappy materials.

Quality ones last a long time.

Yummy:
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1313593229

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1313593229

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1313593229

Awesome. I don't plan on sourcing anything from ebay. I've read enough horror stories. Seems to me that with a turbo setup, you really get what you pay for, and cheaping out just leads to headaches.

BEGi is just up the road from me. I've taken my car there to get diagnosed for overheating and was finally stuck with a $650 bill and it didn't fix anything (it was in their shop for 1.5 months). They had my friend's car there for 4-5 months just to install and tune one of their turbo kits. From the stories I've seen on miataturbo they aren't that great for sending out complete kits. They'll ship parts to you and you'll later find out they send other parts in other packages. I know of a couple of people in town that have working kits but I always seem to hear more bad than good (but I guess that's because people usually complain about problems more than they rave success). I haven't heard much on Flyin' Miata but they've always been helpful to answer my questions in e-mails or phone calls even when I haven't bought stuff from them (previous car owner did). BEGi, 90% of the time from my experience, has told me "Sure we'll find out for you" and I never get a call or e-mail back. I think BEGi means well but they only have a handful of people there on any given day and are really busy.

This is just my experience so take it with a grain of salt. Whenever I start working on my turbo setup I'm going to go with Absurdflow on the manifold and do everything else myself with the exception of intercooler piping.

The piping, silicone couplers, t-bolt clamps, and intercoolers from ebay (China) are just fine to use. There are lots of big power cars running them without issues. The Chinese turbos have proven to be pretty reliable, too, albeit with slightly less efficiency. Lots of guys are running them that have had them on for years without issue.



Here's a Miata with a Chinese T3/T4 playing on an autocross course. The turbo has been running without issue for several years.

BEGi makes good components. I just wouldn't use an entire kit due to personal preference to build my own. I think their manifolds are quite good and would use them if needed.

Awesome! That's a buddy of mine here in town. He's bought most of his turbo setup off of eBay or fabricated it himself. It can be done (if you're a mad scientist)! ;)

Or just mad! I love that video. That car looks like a blast to drive.

It's insanely fun to drive. I got to drive a safety-check run in it and a fun run at another event both on dead street tires and it's still fun as hell. Definitely don't discount the china-chargers.

I went with the BEGi S4 kit (tubular mani) because, while FM and Bell both have certain parts that are better than the other, I thought Bell had, as a complete kit, a little more quality. If I were to do another turbo build then I would source parts from several different companies probably including both FM and Bell, but since the I had never done a turbo build before I wanted a complete kit from one complany so I couldn't forget anything or run into compatability issues that could make me lose interest before the project was done. On the topic of Bell's costomer service, they are a small company that produces quality products so, yeah, sometimes you have to wait. This is from personal experience ordering a kit, so I don't know what its like having them actually work on your car.

I looked into everything back in the day, and in the end I went more DIY route, so I could get exactly what I wanted. On the exhaust side of stuff, FM couldn't really customize anything about theirs, couldn't get their exhaust without paying for a high flow cat..... ghey. Begi was able to do such a thing, but their exhaust was still really expensive I thought for some of the pieces (mid pipe....just straight pipe basically..). In the end I went with ARTech- he can do whatever you like, for a good price. Absurdflow was high on my list as well, but at the time I was ready to buy and Tim/absurd had a long waiting list, so ARTech it was, no regrets.

I got some misc stuff from FM (motor mounts, sway bars, brakes, rollbar..i cant remember it all) and got some odds and ends from Begi as well. Oil feed kit, some misc oil fittings, fuel pump.... etc.

Anyways I feel like I'm rambling now, but I chose to and enjoyed piecing together my own setup. If you want to just get somethign and get it all installed over a long weekend or something and not do as much thinking and research- cant go wrong really with either begi or FM kit. I would give the nod to FM though, and get a megasquirt ecu

^+1, FM offers some amazing support, and won't see you crap you don't need. My only beef with them is how they push they adamantly push the hydra. That thing is expensive, and requires their own special (expensive) wdieband. Not to mention lots of msm hydra users report great under wot, but crappy performance with everything else.

ABSURDflow or ARTech hotparts with a TiAL v-band housing, TiAL Q BOV, BEGi intercooler, BEGi intake box, 5-0 motorsports EV14 squirters, local 3" exhaust, local intercooler pipes, local heat-shield, make your own hoses from Bat-Inc. Drill and safety-wire anything that vibrates, then never, ever look back.

I've been reading some of your old stuff, and i'm now thinking that piecing it together is the better route. I'm pretty good at fabrication, and have access to some heavy machining equipment. I'm going to try build it myself. I'm finally comfortable with tuning my MS, So I guess the next step is to start piecing together a system.

update build thread? :D

If you didn't live so far away I would ask you to help tune my ms. I feel like I
About to be up ---- creek without a paddle

I'll update it tonight. I've been taking more pics and putting a lot of hours into it lately.

it actually snowed today :(

its supposed to snow here today/tonight. :bang: