I WANT TO VENT about this turbo I am trying to fit
 

I have a super sexy barely used genuine Garrett that I was hoping to use on my car that won't fit with my two currently owned turbo manifolds. :vash:

The turbo is physically too large to fit under the hood with my HKS top mount cast iron manifold, and too large to fit between the Flyin' Miata side mount cast manifold and the frame rail. It is a journal bearing 2860, so it isn't super huge on the inside but the exterior of the compressor housing is thicker than the standard automotive version and the leg of the turbine housing is slightly longer than the more compact automotive version. These two things together combine to make this a PITA for me. I am so pissed. If I had a different manifold it would probably work. If I had a different compressor housing it would likely work with the FM mani, but I would have to buy a matching wheel for it, too, because all the housings I see for sale are for a different trim wheel. :mad: And there are no certainties that it would fit after I spent the money on the housing and wheel. I might still need to do something with the turbine housing to make it fit with this manifold and that would be more money. I might even need to do the turbine wheel to get the readily available turbine housings to fit with it. :ohnoes:

And by the time I buy all of that crap I could have easily bought a brand new Chinacharger in the ~2871 size that I really would like to have and passed this turbo on to someone that had a mani it would work well with. So I haz dilemma. :sad2: I'm not even sure that China 2871's will fit between the FM manifold and the frame rail. Most sellers have no specs on exterior dimensions. Frustrations are frustrating. I need more smileys to express my angst.

OK, to make you smile: Hoods are cheap, cut a whole in the top so you can hang that fat piggy out the top. :)

do it
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1328887385

that would piss me off too, i would probably pick the best of the 2 manifolds and sell the other and the turbo and get the china charger. you can always pick up a garret later and swap it on.

Depending on what garrett turbo it is, it might be more purchasing an entire CHRA and compressor housing to get it to fit. The compressor wheels on the GT stuff aren't servicable.

Manifold becomes the cheap option. though not as cheap as notching a frame rail.

You know what to do.
https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1328889419


That or use a scissor jack and/or rachet strap to pull the engine over towards the passenger side. That is if getting it on the studs is the issue.

If it was just notching the little sheet metal part of the frame rail that sticks out I would be fine with it but I'm not keen on digging into the big rectangular box so much. Y8s, it is a journal version so it all comes apart but the $ aren't making good sense to me at this point. I'm going to need to stew on it a bit longer.

The hood cutting idea has merits on a real race car but it would end up being a poster child for fail if I did it to mine. I don't want a fail blog feature pic car.

Still taking advice/commentary/bright ideas.

Is the frame rail cut? Measure from the flange to the top of the compressor, and from the manifold flange to the frame rail, what's the interference we're talking about? 1"? 1'?

can we get some mocked up photos of the options?

can either of the manifolds be mounted upside down (and redrilled)?

How bad is the hood interference? It'd be sick if you gave it a hump on the hood for turbo fitment. Wouldn't be cheap though. Cutting shaping welding smoothing painting..

If it was me, I'd just cut the hood.

if an unsightly hood bump was good enough for the mitsubishi eclipse, it's good enough for your miata.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1328971324

The Miata already has a hood bump over the engine. Adding a homemade one would be unsightly at best. If I ever did it I would just cut the hole and add trim around the edging.

Well, I checked it out a bit more closely and it was not going to be a frame cut I was willing to make. The turbine housing and compressor housing would both need to be accommodated and I couldn't stomach hacking it.

It was either change turbos or build a different manifold and, frankly, changing turbos was quicker, and easier at this point. I'm trying to get it installed and sorted before the Sebring track day on March 31. I will certainly be able to recoup some of the difference by selling the Garrett anyway because it's a really good barely used turbo. And I'm not afraid of using "Speedy Racer" turbos on my car.

Added fun...Now that a buddy came over and looked at the turbo and a couple of spare turbos I had it looks like I could have machined the exducer housing of a 2554 that I have and put it on the 2860 CHRA and had it fit nicely. The CHRA mounts are the same but the turbine wheel exducer would require the housing to be opened up. It is significantly smaller in every exterior dimension and would cause the whole shebang to fit under the hood or inside the frame rail.

Go figure.

photo [s] please

pics

More Test Fitting and Modification
 

Ok, pics are here. I did a little more adjusting and test fitting last night. I got my intercooler piping pretty close to where I want it and the side clearancing of the lip on the frame rail fits well with this new turbo. It also allows for the movement of the engine in its mounts a little.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1329840565

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1329840565

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1329840565


Ignore extraneous wires and hoses that will be moved or removed as part of this process. I also decided to remove part of the shelf under the heater hoses just like the V8 swap requires. It will be dressed and painted and probably covered in heat shielding in the future. I am contemplating possibly removing a bit more over above the steering shaft but haven't decided. This probably wasn't necessary but it will simplify the downpipe routing and accessibility. It will also free up space to work.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1329840565

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1329840565


Here's the Garrett 2860 that wouldn't fit with my manifold.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1329840565

The compressor housing is beefed up around the exterior making it a little larger than many of the 2860's. The camera battery died before I got the money shot of the turbine housing. Just imagine a 3/4 inch longer neck out to the turbine inlet from the main body of the housing than is customary for most automotive turbos of the same size. It is probably better for smoothing and directing flow to the turbine wheel but makes packaging a bit more difficult with certain off-the-shelf manifolds.

It's my new terboo. I'm trying to get everything installed, tested, and tuned before Sebring track day on March 31.

I'm jealous

Sixshooter's Slow Torture™ Build, A Study in Automotive Masochism
 

I put turbo on car. Yay!


Crappy cellphone teaser pic:

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1330961002

The end.



lol.

shortest build thread ever. lol

I dropped it off at a local small town exhaust shop to have a downpipe constructed and installed this morning. We put it on the lift and the 19yr old installer looked at what I had and said "It's tight but I think I can do it." I said "That's why I brought it to a professional." I gave him the two v-bands and left. We'll see how he does.

The rest of the exhaust is a 3 inch mandrel bend setup that came with the blown up turbo parts car I bought a couple of years ago. It had some goofy hangars on it so I told him to make that part right as he saw fit. It has a ricer HKS muffler with integrated bigass tip which I'm not really fond of but... oh well, if it works.

its nice to have competent shops near by.

Good stuff Steve! 'bout time you had a build thread here.

build thread? whats that?!?!

Also nice to see some progress on this car! Cant wait to see it in person again sometime.

I didn't hear from the muffler shop before 5:30pm. I certainly shouldn't be concerned that it takes more that 7 hours to build a downpipe and add an o2 bung.

Well, I picked the car up on Friday afternoon and drove it home with the default MS base tune boost cut still on. It sounds deep and full of bass without any raspyness at all. It is 3 inch diameter pipe all the way from the turbine to the muffler outlet. It is an HKS HiPower muffler that was on my parts car for those of you keeping score. It has a ridonkulous 5 or 6 inch diameter tip built into it with the HKS logo engraved in it. Ricey as fawk looking but sounds deep and mellow. The downpipe isn't perfect but it is workable and will do for now.

I worked on covering brake lines and heater hoses with shielding to protect them from the heat off the turbine and downpipe. I made some progress but I'm not done. Pics tomorrow if you are good boys and girls.

I adjusted the wastegate arm so that the wastegate was slightly open at rest and set the overboost cut at 160kpa (around 8.5psi). I did this to try to eliminate the chances of overboosting until everything is broken in and tested for leaks and double checked. I did a little driving around. It is a nice thing to feel when the air starts to rush and you feel the welcome surge of extra power. Even with the wastegate propped partially open it feels compelling in that way that only turbos can. I've waited too long for a turbocharged car of my own and am satisfied and content in a special way that I put so much of my own work into it and made it happen from a pile of spare parts, a couple of new parts, and a lot of reckoning and wrenching. I feel satisfaction. And hope.

I have hope that even at the diminutive pressure level that the car achieves at present, it would keep much of the lesser traffic from running away from me on the track straightaways as they had before. I have hope that I will get those point-bys that I have been wrongfully denied in the past. I feel justice, nay even vindication shall come from this. I have only glimpsed through the crack in the door, but now I wish more than anything to boldly enter, crank up the boost to eleventy and ride while howling madly with fire in my eyes. Intoxicating? Yes, yes, it is.

kick that door in swat style. lol
but seriously welcome to the addiction, wait untill you spool without the wastegate propped open.
(Sig quote for you)
turbos are some of the most fun you can have with your pants on :skid:

Oh, I've driven 700+whp turbo cars and know the thrill of which you speak, but they weren't MINE. It is more remarkable when you build it yourself with no kit and the damn thing even runs. I've always felt a strange bit of surprise when any engine I've ever built fired up for the first time, too. It's a little bit of "Wow, I can't believe it worked" every time, no matter how many I built.

picked a bad way of wording that, but yea its that satisfaction of knowing its yours.

Pics of the dp?

Pictars by the handful.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1331587695

I spent Saturday creating additional heat shielding out of aluminum plate. I did some yesterday as well. After a 30 minute drive, I'm very happy with the differences in heat between the hot and cold sides of the shielding. It is dramatic.

Sunday I built the smaller heatshield. It has a 90* bend at the bottom and goes up under the heater hoses to protect them from underneath.

Note the slovenly downpipe action.

Quick summary recap:

The Miata started as an upgrade from my well worn FC RX7, but it just didn't handle well out of the box. And my business was suffering a downturn in '07 when I acquired it so I didn't do much in the way of modifications initially. When I couldn't stand it anymore I started making changes.

I installed a Mishimoto 52mm radiator, an ACT HDSS clutch upgrade, braided clutch line, and Hawk brake pads. Pleased with the results, I continued to watch for good deals on useful parts for the eventual jump to turbo. I bought a blown up '93 turbo parts car, some manifolds, used turbos, injectors, and other goodies along the way. Money got even tighter as I took a pay cut in addition to my commissions drying up, so I denied myself the pleasure of upgrading for awhile, but was still able to sponsor Miatas at the Lake 2010 up at the lake house to try and enjoy some camaraderie with my Miata brethren.

During the summer of 2011 I decided I had neglected my desire to get out on the track for long enough and started down the road of preparing my car. I bought a used Hard Dog rollbar, used Bilsteins off CL, some Kirkey seats off craigslist, used FM sways, and a pretty new set of harnesses.

Getting onto Sebring with NASA was even more fun than I had hoped for and caused me to invest in some used 450lb front springs and 275 rears. Road Atlanta only showed me I needed more powah, so I installed a used MS1 built by Brain, installed a chinese 2870 turbo, used FM manifold, and the intercooler and 3 inch exhaust from that old '93 turbo parts car I had stripped.

Between selling parts off of the parts car and scrounging wherever a cheap part could be found, I have pieced together a reasonably well behaved turbo Miata. Just today I upgraded to 550/350lb springs and did some radiator ducting and heat shielding work in preparation for the next big track day at Sebring in two weeks.

how are the 550/350? what sway bars are you running?

Awesome Six! I agree with the lack of power. Mid Ohio was pretty frustrating. Everyone was hitting 130 - 150+ on the long straight that I was doing about 110 - 115.

Man I can't wait, next month is my first even of the season!

when did you go to mid ohio?

Last fall with Nasa. I was there for the Championships albeit, I'm just an HPDE still. I want to try to get my comp license at the end of this year if I can.

next time your out there, let me know. im about a an hours drive from the track.

They are fine. I really can't say that they are any different than the 450/275 combo other than the rear end doesn't travel quite as far when going over undulations in the road at higher speed. It feels more controlled. It travels a bit less under compression due to the spring rate being stronger and the Bilsteins handle it all in stride.

I am running the Flyin' Miata sway bars front and rear. It was very neutral previously. I'm looking forward to trying them out. I may need to adjust my sways a little for balance as necessary.

For those of you just now following my progress, the factory '00 Hard S Bilsteins are awesome with stronger springs than stock.

For anyone else that is interested in picking up a set and converting to coilovers, here's a quickie lesson.

You need to remove this collar.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1332288090

Then you will see this little tab that you will carefully need to grind off.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1332288090

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1332288090

Then you need to add something to take up the space so things don't rattle. I like tape.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1332288090

Then slip over the adjusters.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1332288090

And then the 2.5 inch wide springs. These are the 450lb/inch springs that are 8 inches long. My new springs are 550lb/in 7 inch in front and 350lb/in 7 inch rear.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1332288090

Well, that's the tough part.


Yeah, I was catching beemers, and assorted eurotrash in the corners but not able to keep up on the exit as we broke out onto the straights. No keepy-uppy, no pointy-by. And it sucked. It sucks to be a better driver with a better designed and prepared car and not get your point by. No longer. Turbo fired vengeance is mine in a week and a half.

I installed a little black turbo blanket from CXRacing tonight. Heat management will be the deal breaker on twenty minute track sessions at 90*F plus. We'll see if this one is any good.

https://www.miataforumz.com/attachme...ine=1332289074