Track/Autocross instructors discussion
10-25-2011, 02:02 PM
#1
BAMFr
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,787
Track/Autocross instructors discussion
After some internal discussion, it has been decided that a deleted thread actually had useful info in it. So, to fix our silly mistake, we have decided to make a new thread on it.
Basically, we want to share our experiences with instructors at different clubs. Most of the info contained here will pertain to Track/HPDE events as autocross instructors aren't nearly as common. If you do have an experience to share with an autocross instructor, then please don't hesitate to add in. As with most discussion thread...this is all open to discussion and we would love to have your opinion added in (but do so nicely towards other members).
Club: NASA-SE, Road Atlanta in August 2011
Classroom:
-bunch of old guys jacking off about twin-turbo GTOs and dual brake master cylinders
-Instructor hardly went over turning or apex points on the track. He always told us to ask the instructor.
-They force to go to class, so you can hear about this old guy's super cool corvette/porsche or how this dude's car has really bad blow-by.
My Instructor:
-A playboy cup mx-5 racer.
-He was fast, but he was a shouter
-He focused on smooth-ness, and practicing everything everytime. so if I am getting in the turn too slow, still need to brake.
-He was also not open to showing me any new lines alternatives.
-He wanted me to learn heel-toe on track. That won't be a problem next time.
-2nd day, we both loosened up and he let me go a bit more. but still forced me to use my brakes at odd speeds, even if I had taken that corner faster the lap before.
-I understand that instructors will make you track-out even if you have to drive the car to edge, just to get in the habit. but I don't think you really need to be reminded about braking...
-He started timing me for the last two sessions of the weekend.
I would not mind running with the instructor again, because I feel that he would have been better for a more advanced student. He seemed slightly annoyed with my beginner-ness during the first day and was pretty condescending on multiple occasions.
Thats my evaluation overall, my gripe is more with NASA's whole experience. Hot pulls are great, but they didn't do hot pulls for the HPDE. They also took some of our HPDE time rather than another group who could easily use less track time than the newbies.
Basically, we want to share our experiences with instructors at different clubs. Most of the info contained here will pertain to Track/HPDE events as autocross instructors aren't nearly as common. If you do have an experience to share with an autocross instructor, then please don't hesitate to add in. As with most discussion thread...this is all open to discussion and we would love to have your opinion added in (but do so nicely towards other members).
Club: NASA-SE, Road Atlanta in August 2011
Classroom:
-bunch of old guys jacking off about twin-turbo GTOs and dual brake master cylinders
-Instructor hardly went over turning or apex points on the track. He always told us to ask the instructor.
-They force to go to class, so you can hear about this old guy's super cool corvette/porsche or how this dude's car has really bad blow-by.
My Instructor:
-A playboy cup mx-5 racer.
-He was fast, but he was a shouter
-He focused on smooth-ness, and practicing everything everytime. so if I am getting in the turn too slow, still need to brake.
-He was also not open to showing me any new lines alternatives.
-He wanted me to learn heel-toe on track. That won't be a problem next time.
-2nd day, we both loosened up and he let me go a bit more. but still forced me to use my brakes at odd speeds, even if I had taken that corner faster the lap before.
-I understand that instructors will make you track-out even if you have to drive the car to edge, just to get in the habit. but I don't think you really need to be reminded about braking...
-He started timing me for the last two sessions of the weekend.
I would not mind running with the instructor again, because I feel that he would have been better for a more advanced student. He seemed slightly annoyed with my beginner-ness during the first day and was pretty condescending on multiple occasions.
Thats my evaluation overall, my gripe is more with NASA's whole experience. Hot pulls are great, but they didn't do hot pulls for the HPDE. They also took some of our HPDE time rather than another group who could easily use less track time than the newbies.
Last edited by Track; 10-26-2011 at 08:02 AM.
10-25-2011, 02:17 PM
#2
BAMFr
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,787
Club: NASA-SE, CMP Oct. 2011
Classroom:
-More of the same old ----. Some guys have to brag about their cars, instructor does nothing to bring it back on topic...the guy jizzes in his pants and we move on.
-We had a lot of complaining about not giving point-bys, and ironically the people who were complaining were the ones not giving them very well.
-Some guys implied that they liked to "run with each other". I don't know what to make of it, but it seemed irrelevant to the whole "Driver's education" philosophy. This is especially a problem because most beginner to intermediate students have a habit of following the car in front (I know I still do it sometimes, especially on out-up laps).
-Forced to go to class. This was painful during the first day where I had to listen to the ABCs for the umpteenth time.
-I am really disappointed in the NASA classroom program, as its rarely relevant and hardly worth the 40 minutes they make you spend in class (it says 20 minutes on the schedule, but they don't let you go till the next class comes).
-The small nuggets of information you pick up in class can be great though. in the 120-160 minutes of class we spent, we discussed a particular line through turn 8 that was helpful. took 5 minutes, but I guess it was worth it.
My Instructor:
-A TTE miata driver
-He was amazingly helpful
-Very open to my comfort level
-Had suggestions, was very positive, explained car control very well and pointed out my weakest point in the car (and in the driver).
-Turned me loose on the 2nd session of the 2nd day and finally got me in HPDE 2 with NASA.
-Helped me get some comfort back in the kink, cleaned up my line around turn 3, and suggested I get some new shocks (and springs) and run slightly lower PSI around since the pressure drops a good bit during the cooldown lap. I thought about that before, but never took that into account when checking PSI in my tires.
Classroom:
-More of the same old ----. Some guys have to brag about their cars, instructor does nothing to bring it back on topic...the guy jizzes in his pants and we move on.
-We had a lot of complaining about not giving point-bys, and ironically the people who were complaining were the ones not giving them very well.
-Some guys implied that they liked to "run with each other". I don't know what to make of it, but it seemed irrelevant to the whole "Driver's education" philosophy. This is especially a problem because most beginner to intermediate students have a habit of following the car in front (I know I still do it sometimes, especially on out-up laps).
-Forced to go to class. This was painful during the first day where I had to listen to the ABCs for the umpteenth time.
-I am really disappointed in the NASA classroom program, as its rarely relevant and hardly worth the 40 minutes they make you spend in class (it says 20 minutes on the schedule, but they don't let you go till the next class comes).
-The small nuggets of information you pick up in class can be great though. in the 120-160 minutes of class we spent, we discussed a particular line through turn 8 that was helpful. took 5 minutes, but I guess it was worth it.
My Instructor:
-A TTE miata driver
-He was amazingly helpful
-Very open to my comfort level
-Had suggestions, was very positive, explained car control very well and pointed out my weakest point in the car (and in the driver).
-Turned me loose on the 2nd session of the 2nd day and finally got me in HPDE 2 with NASA.
-Helped me get some comfort back in the kink, cleaned up my line around turn 3, and suggested I get some new shocks (and springs) and run slightly lower PSI around since the pressure drops a good bit during the cooldown lap. I thought about that before, but never took that into account when checking PSI in my tires.
10-26-2011, 07:19 AM
#3
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tampa, FL; Lake Jackson (Atlanta), GA
Posts: 1,902
Club: NASA-FL, Sebring Oct. 3, 2011
Classroom:
-Discussed flags and course specific do's and don'ts.
-Showed in-car track video of mistakes being made and how to avoid them.
-Later meetings discussed notes made by flagmen regarding issues and advice from them.
-Asked each one of us what we learned that session and we shared humble self-appraisals of our noted shortcomings. Egos were not an issue and everyone was quite frank.
-It was made very clear that if a car was EVER behind you it was a faster car and should be given a point-by, unless you just passed it and were leaving it.
-It was made clear that higher horsepower cars should lift to allow passing by lower horsepower cars on straights. It was pointed out that many cars and drivers were fast in a straight line but do not corner as well and that skill is demonstrated in the corners and not the straights.
My Instructor:
-A TTB Boxster Driver
-Patient instructor and awesome driver. He had set the all time track record for TTB in the first session that morning.
-He had almost too much input for me the first session when I was trying to learn where the track went (Sebring is 17 turns and 3.7 miles), but I eventually figured out where I was going.
-He let me ride with him after the first session and OMFG he was fast. But more importantly he showed me the line and the braking and turn-in points by demonstration. I am a visual learner and this made all of the difference.
-I missed the second classroom session because he was giving me instruction, drawing pictures and explaining different lines through the corners and the advantages and drawbacks to them. I really appreciated and benefited from this. I caught up with the classroom instructor afterwards and he said it was ok that I missed it for that.
-I decided that I wanted to get signed off for HPDE2 as quickly as possible because sometimes the HPDE1 fills up early, but that I would want to have an instructor if possible on every new track because there is always much site-specific information to learn.
-Overall it was a very positive and encouraging experience.
Classroom:
-Discussed flags and course specific do's and don'ts.
-Showed in-car track video of mistakes being made and how to avoid them.
-Later meetings discussed notes made by flagmen regarding issues and advice from them.
-Asked each one of us what we learned that session and we shared humble self-appraisals of our noted shortcomings. Egos were not an issue and everyone was quite frank.
-It was made very clear that if a car was EVER behind you it was a faster car and should be given a point-by, unless you just passed it and were leaving it.
-It was made clear that higher horsepower cars should lift to allow passing by lower horsepower cars on straights. It was pointed out that many cars and drivers were fast in a straight line but do not corner as well and that skill is demonstrated in the corners and not the straights.
My Instructor:
-A TTB Boxster Driver
-Patient instructor and awesome driver. He had set the all time track record for TTB in the first session that morning.
-He had almost too much input for me the first session when I was trying to learn where the track went (Sebring is 17 turns and 3.7 miles), but I eventually figured out where I was going.
-He let me ride with him after the first session and OMFG he was fast. But more importantly he showed me the line and the braking and turn-in points by demonstration. I am a visual learner and this made all of the difference.
-I missed the second classroom session because he was giving me instruction, drawing pictures and explaining different lines through the corners and the advantages and drawbacks to them. I really appreciated and benefited from this. I caught up with the classroom instructor afterwards and he said it was ok that I missed it for that.
-I decided that I wanted to get signed off for HPDE2 as quickly as possible because sometimes the HPDE1 fills up early, but that I would want to have an instructor if possible on every new track because there is always much site-specific information to learn.
-Overall it was a very positive and encouraging experience.
10-26-2011, 08:02 AM
#4
BAMFr
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NC
Posts: 1,787
yea, so I think this is a perfect example of being in the wrong DE group and having to deal with class. Thanks for sharing Sixshooter. 2 more experiences to share with you guys which I will post later today.
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