Bossfrog Double Hoop or Hard Dog Ace - Page 3 - Miata Forumz - Mazda Miata Chat Forums
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NB (1998-2005) NB Miata discussion within. In 1998, Mazda released the second-generation MX-5, production code NB, for the 1999 model year.

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Old 08-16-2011, 09:43 PM   #21  
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I didn't say "I want something different" until after you incorrectly inferred that the bar was for cosmetic reasons. The basis for that comment was, again from the original post, "My 96 Miata had the Hard Dog Hardcore with double diagonals in it" - and now I want something other than that bar.

I was not aware that the seat belt brackets were considered a structural mounting point. When I previously installed my Hardcore, it had 4 mounting points - the 2 near the rear suspension, and the 2 directly behind the seats.
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Old 08-16-2011, 10:16 PM   #22  
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I didn't say "I want something different" until after you incorrectly inferred that the bar was for cosmetic reasons.
No, you made that statement before mine which is why I quoted you on it when I made the cosmetic statement. Go back and check page 2 of the thread.

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I was not aware that the seat belt brackets were considered a structural mounting point. When I previously installed my Hardcore, it had 4 mounting points - the 2 near the rear suspension, and the 2 directly behind the seats.
I would hope the seat belts of any car would be part of a structural mounting point. They must have changed the design since you last got yours then. Regardless, both the Ace and Double Hoop have 4+ mounting points and if they both pass the broom-stick test then you'll be clear for any track day by my experiences from dealing with tech at track days. It's down to a personal preference that you have to make. Best of luck and let us know how it goes.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:13 AM   #23  
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Yes, I understand that is in your first post but if it's an "occasional" track day you're most likely not going to be pushing all that hard. Also with your comment stating "I want something different" indicating that it's more of a physical appearance to you than functionality. Forgive me if I took this the wrong way.


The Hard Dog Ace is 4 points, the Hard Dog Hard Core is 6 points. I've installed several myself and know this for sure. There are 3 plates on either side. 1 is near the floor behind the seat, the next bolts in with the seat belt real, and the rear one is near the rear suspension on the side of the fuel tank... that would make 6 points.

It seems like I was misinformed about the Boss Frog not passing SCCA inspection. I will see if I can find that documentation again that my friend pointed out but I would not want to be caught rolling over a barricade with a double-hoop design. This is why I haven't pushed my S2000 on the track and I keep the Miata strictly as my track car.
Thats wrong buddy. If that is the case, then the Boss frog has 8 points (technically it would be 10+ points, 2 bolts into each seatbelt tower, 1 for each rear leg, 2 for the transmission tunnel stradle, and 1 for each tub mount leg). 6 Points is a reference to the number of different points that it mounts into the chassis. The seat belt and the leg that is beside the seat is one point. Its not about the number of bolts, but rather the number of "legs" or "feet" that connect to the chassis. hell if it was about bolts, I could make one hell of an 8-point bar which just drills holes into the seat belt tower and simply runs across.

There is just two legs for each side:
http://www.bethania-garage.com/hardcore.htm


This arguement is moot right now. The OP is asking for advice on which one it is, we are not here to analyze the effectiveness of the boss frog, nor count the number of bolts/mounting points on each bar. As a matter of fact, I hardly think the number of mounting points is making a big difference. If you would like to discuss this, then lets make a new thread and throw ---- around as much as we like over there.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:19 AM   #24  
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This arguement is moot right now. The OP is asking for advice on which one it is, we are not here to analyze the effectiveness of the boss frog, nor count the number of bolts/mounting points on each bar. As a matter of fact, I hardly think the number of mounting points is making a big difference. If you would like to discuss this, then lets make a new thread and throw ---- around as much as we like over there.
Read my post above yours, like we both said... it's a moot point. Carry on people, carry on. Sorry for the "over-analysis".

Last edited by RavynX; 08-17-2011 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 08-17-2011, 08:21 AM   #25  
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You don't need a letter to say your bar passes tech. It just needs to meet the specifications. You could have one made locally to the proper specifications or even build it yourself if you are so equipped and skilled and it would be perfectly legal. What you have there is a red herring. But if the letter makes you feel better, buy it. It is your decision and yours alone.

I had never previously considered the structural member that the seat belt assembly threads through as a mounting point for the roll bar but as constructed it does fit the bill. That is a strong structure and it's mounting location up high on the bar could only strengthen the transverse and longitudinal stability of the bar under a load.

After further contemplation of the rules...
I'm going to step out on a limb and speculate that the reason the double hoop bar comes with a letter stating that it is in compliance is because someone was disallowed the ability to participate with it previously. Most double hoop bars commonly seen are style bars. And most don't go the full width of the cabin with one continuous piece of DOM steel. I'm going to guess that someone had a bad day in tech because the legality of the design of the bar came into question and the Boss Frog folks needed to take action to provide support for their buyers as a reactive measure. See below.

NASA's CCR states the following in the HPDE section:
11.4.7 Roll Bars
All open cars should have a roll bar installed to help protect the occupant(s) from injury during a roll-over. The roll bar should be able to withstand the compressional forces involved in supporting the full weight of the car. The roll bar‟s main hoop should extend the full width of the car (except certain cars that have been approved by NASA). The main hoop shall be one continuous piece with smooth bends and no evidence of crimping or wall failure shall be present (i.e. should be Mandrel bends). All welds should be of the highest possible quality, with full penetration [Ref15.6.15)]. All cars with roll bars are required to have adequate roll bar padding per CCR section #15.6.4. In cases where the driver‟s head may come in contact with the roll bar should the seatback fail, a seatback brace is required in conformance with section #15.6.22. The material and minimums are as follows: (All cars with full roll cages should conform to the applicable sections found in section #15.0.)

Vehicle weight DOM or ERW
Under 2000 lbs. 1.50" x .120”
2001 - 3500 lbs. 1.75" x .120"
Over 3500 lbs. 2.00" x .120"

Last edited by sixshooter; 08-17-2011 at 08:23 AM.
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