Alignment
 

What alignment are you guys running?

My set up
Tokico aluminas with Ground Control coilovers 425lb f 300lb r and FM sways.
front: camber -1.5, zero toe
rear: camber -1.8 need more!, zero toe

im running megan streets........... dumped

front: camber -3.3 toe 0
rear: camber -4.7 toe 0

stock suspension:

front: Camber -1
Rear: Camber -1.5

I am will be realigning to get some odd castor just to really sweeten the manual steering package.

Stock suspension :(

Front: -2.0
Rear: -.5

actually really nice handling set up! i just need tires that aren't 400 treadwear >.>

You'll find that a lot of us are moving form the "norm" of the more rear camber over the front, especially since the rear has dyanmic camber curves (ie, more camber when suspension is compressed).

What is the application? Daily, Autox, Track?

IIRC I'm at -1.9F and -1.8R. I'm pushing over 220rwtq and I'm planted with a rear bar.

sounds like a nice setup you got there Brain

Full FM susp.
Camber toe Cast
Front -1.1 1/32 -5
Rear -1.5 1/32 ---

Like it a lot for hills and street. next time I'll dial the caster down a scoosh. Getting a little front end slide on hard corners at low speed with heavy throttle IE: pulling out of U turns with heavy throttle

Can you tell us the rest of your settings? What width and type of tires are you using to manage that torque? Are you using some positive toe, in the rear to fight power oversteer?

I think toe out would cause more oversteer...

Oops, it was late, I meant toe-in

205mm Riken Raptors homey.

I have 1/16 toe-out up front and 1/16 toe-in back in the rear.

tein flexes with 7k/6k springs. full soft.

RB 7/8" front bar on full stiff. stock rear.



Everyone needs to forget two words: Lanny and Firehawk

Front:

-3 camber
1/16 toe out
5 caster

Rear:

-2 camber
1/8 toe in

Tein Flex 9/6

RB hollow front bar, no rear bar

Just got an alignment done. Will get to test out the effects on Fri & Sun @ track.

Front:
-2.5 camber
0 Toe
3.6 Castor

Rear:
-2.0 camber
0 Toe

12/12.5" Ride height, hollow front bar, stock rear bar. Using this as a starting point to fine tune. I think it might be too much front camber.

Thats very interesting about more front camber than rear. You've got them still fairly close Brain is there an amount of difference that would be too much?

I'm also wondering about how much caster is best for a car with power steering... the NA6 doesn't have it so I've been used to requesting as much caster as I can get!

Currently on the NA8, 8kg/mm front 6kg/mm rear coilovers, 24mm adjustable front sway set to soft, sock rear sway:

front: 0 toe, 1.5 degrees camber, I forget the caster
rear: 0 toe, 2 degrees camber

I've had varying success with 0 toe mostly due to one of the alignments I had being a complete clusterfuck, but this time with the KU31 tyres it was very tight. At the moment have the other wheels with some other tyres and it feels squirrelly again.

Alright im looking for help on what to go with this Wednesday for an alignment. i dont know a whole lot about the subject but understand how it works.
My application is DD/ weekend autocross car
my suspension is Racing Beat lowering springs and stock shocks(soon to be upgraded)

Ok, let me try to be concise here. I will start off by giving you this site for general alignment info:
http://www.ozebiz.com.au/racetech/theory/align.html

then I will give you the alignment page at 949racing and flyin miata:
http://949racing.com/miata-race-alignment-info.aspx
http://flyinmiata.com/tech/alignment.php

So my alignment guy told me to stick with stock values for Caster and toe, but to dial in some camber to take advantage of cambered turns (at the track). I am running a mild setup as I still daily my car so 1.0F/1.5R. You can run more camber depending on how much you care about tire wear.

Now a trick for tire wear, is to rotate your tires cross ways. Since a lot of tires are rotational directional (i.e. star specs), this may seem like bad advice...but the way it was explained to me is the rotation direction is really only for pushing water out from under the tire. Tt has very little to do with the dry traction.

Also, small things here and there. You can use some toe out to help with turn in for the autocross, but thats not something I know much about as I don't autocross much. Less caster will help with low speed stability/turning (mostly for manual steering) and will inversely affect the high speed stability/turning. Personally, I am running a depowered rack and have no problems with low speed turning, even in parking lots. So I have kept my Caster at stock 5.5. Hope that helps!

My Suggestion:
FRONT
-Stock Caster
-Stock OR 1/16 toe out (please look up a good value here, I am not sure if thats on the mark or not. only suggest going up from stock is to help with autocross, but it will wear out the tires a lot more)
-1.x Camber

REAR
-Stock Caster
-Stock Toe
-1.x+.4 Camber

So your leaning toward this page on m.net
thanks for the help track

not sure, I haven't read that page. My current settings are:
Front
Caster:+5
Toe:0
Camber:-1.0

Rear
Toe:0
Camber:-1.5

I think thats just a generally solid overall alignment. it will get you some performance benefits while still keeping your tires alive. unless you drive like me and overheat the ---- out of them.

the m.net page runs a good bit of toe, which I personally wouldn't do unless my car was for autocross. Maybe a bit in the front for better turn-in, once my miata gets a suspension and doesn't get the high speed floaty feeling.

Do not go toe out in the rear. Toe at the rear should be 0 or if you're having issues putting power down exiting a corner, then a tad of toe in.

For the front, toe out turns faster, but kills tires on street. A touch of toe in improves tire wear and stability/feel. 0 toe is a decent compromise.

I didn't really like my new alignment. I'm going to reduce the static front camber and increase castor. Also thinking about a little toe-in front & rear.

good catch, I completely labelled them wrong. it should be front/rear

well i had them align it to those and it drives very good.

its not a big deal, overall your camber has to do with the spring rates you run. I personally couldn't calculate that, but its not unheard of to run higher camber in the front (brain is doing it for example, lots of porsche guys do it too). The toe out will help a lot with turn in, which is probably why it feels great. just watch the tire wear and make sure to rotate tires frequently. I do it once every trackday+2000 miles. So about once a month.

yea. definitely i will keep up on that

Sorry, my reading comprehension is not the greatest. Do you mean that you had your alignment done to the incorrect labelings? As in...are you using rear toe out and saying it drives very good?

yes, but i looked at the printout from the dealership that did it, its .01-.03 so nothing major.1/16 is .062

here are my new alignment specs:

Front:
1* Camber
5* Caster
1mm Toe Out

Rear:
1.3* Camber
1mm Toe In

Discuss?

At what height?

You must have power steering still.

stock ride height, No power steering.

That's more caster than most people seem to like for manual steering. How's the effort?

Performance benefits of the higher caster outweight the change in steering feel. I did not notice a big difference from what I had before to now.

even if I did, the steering effort is so easy, I don't even notice the lack of power steering until I am crawling into a parking spot or out of my garage. I am using a depowered rack too btw.

are you using PS Steve?

Shouldn't you be the one telling us your thoughts on the new aligntment :p ?

I don't know anything about Miatas at stock height, but let me know how your front tires wear after some use. Toe out should give you better turn in and be faster, but it should also eat tire on the street.

yea, I am a little annoyed. my car pulls right and the suspension guy hasn't e-mailed me back about fixing that next week.

I will let you guys know how it works since i am going to CMP this weekend. I am even more annoyed that he couldn't get 1.5* camber in the front, thats what I had in there before taking it to him, but he said since he turned up the caster It wasn't able to take as much camber. I am not buying it, but I don't know enough about alignments to argue with that.

"Adam" is a great guy, but I am cynical and always wary of using a new mechanic.

What he said is likey true for your height.

On our cars, the front castor and camber are linked. You can reduce castor for more static camber and increase castor for less static camber. Or just lower it to gain camber as well. Since you're depowered, you might consider lowering castor for more static camber, but I'd just see how it drives first and make corrections from there.

Edit/Add: and on the rear, the camber and toe are linked.

FWIW: caster and camber in the front do affect each other because they both use the same bolts to be adjusted... I'm having the same issue, but im stuck with retarded amounts of camber.

EDIT: you beat me you bastard

so, if I run under 2 minutes at CMP this weekend, I am going to start telling you guys that less camber is better. and I am an idiot, I had 1.0* in the front and 1.5* in the rear. I am annoyed about my rear getting turned down to 1.3*, but you are right he added in rear toe in. (and some toe out on the front).

I think I am just blond forever now, Collin. what the ---- did you do to me yesterday? I am mixing up my front/rear camber all the time now.

So I have been reading about toe out, as I have never driven a car with toe out before...is my constant pulling to the right caused by toe out? I seem to recall that it causes the car to wander and thats why they don't run it on street cars.

A car with toe out in the front will WANT to turn and it will follow crowns in the road a lot more willing. The car will feel twitchier, but it will corner better/faster.

My car wants to go left, more than it wants to go right, but it still drives straight and is not pulling - more like, following the road and eager to go left. Well, maybe it is pulling a little to the left lol

So let us know how it feels after this weekend and let us know how your tires wear.

They don't run front toe out on street cars because most people want a stable, easy to drive car with tires that last. Toe out contradicts all 3 of those.

so, i am not getting the right steering on slow roads. It seems to do fine below 40mph as far as going straight, but on the highway it ALWAYS pulls right. unless I cock it a good bit left. then sometimes it stays straight. I will see what he says. and yes I will give you guys impressions and post more videos. I am waiting until after this weekend to write my Track Logbook.

I'm depowered and the effort is pretty high. But I have no idea what my alignment is so it may have gobs of caster in it. And the seating position is low and really far back because my legs needed the room.

I have a 1" steering wheel spacer on order that will give my arms a wee bit more leverage, but I think is just needs a good alignment. I'll get that when I finalize my suspension spring arrangement. And I'm contemplating bringing the seat forward 3/4" or so as a compromise..

my alignment did great guys. I LOVED how it felt. I was running ~2:02s the weekend before and this weekend, minus the fact that traffic was so ------- heavy and I couldn't get a clean lap, I ran a 2:01 flat including breaking the rear end loose and messing up my exit out of turn 14. I have no doubt I would have ran a 2:00.8-.5 or less had I got out of 14 clean.

Can't really say if this is due to the suspension or not, but I can say that I ran faster even though I was slower through the kink than normal (I introduced a slight lift before turn in...). (I did not push my braking zones forward any this weekend like I had planned, so I think minus a bit more driver confidence I was running the same as the weekend before. Even the weather was +/- 5*)

Very nice. I'm just wondering why you are so far ahead of me... I pulled a 2:08 as my best. perhaps it has to do with 1.8 vs 1.6? my entry speeds through 10 were identical to yours, just a slower time... my other thought is my recurring too much camber issue..